Mostrando entradas con la etiqueta ashe. Mostrar todas las entradas
Mostrando entradas con la etiqueta ashe. Mostrar todas las entradas

martes, 8 de septiembre de 2015

MY TSQ-IV CHAT WITH ASHE

Ashe and I, discussing:

The Snow Queen-Fourth Story-The Prince and the Princess


Sandra Dermark
I absolutely adore this part of the story, and the prince and princess in The Snow Queen are my favourite fairytale characters!!!
I love it all. The castle setting. The princess, my favourite fairytale character, because she is both kind and intelligent, and wants a spouse worthy of her, someone who admires her wit and not her wealth or beauty. And in the end, she finally meets her Waterloo! As an intellectual loner yearning for company, I have identified with her since childhood and still do at 23.
“Do you think the prince and princess ended up being happy together?” I think the answer is yes. Since both of them are kindred spirits (clever, kind, appreciate the finer things in life), and the Seventh Story states “the prince and princess. They had gone traveling.” possibly on honeymoon… It’s such a shame that both of them are secondary characters, for these should have been heroes of their own story. In fact, I have written fanfiction about them, and my longest fanwork is a play retelling the Snow Queen story as seen by the prince and princess (Fourth, Fifth, and Seventh Stories). Feel free to read it here:http://al261200.blogspot.com.es/2015/04/fourth-story-retold-and-uncut.html
  • on September 8, 2015 at 5:38 am | ReplySandra Dermark
    Oh, and I am kind as well as intelligent, and my type of a person is someone exactly like me but on the spear side. Hence why the princess in the Fourth Story of The Snow Queen is my favourite fairytale character, and her prince is my second favourite fairytale character.
  • I also think it’s great to have a female character want a male character more for his mental capacity rather than looks or wealth.
    You’re right, they could have made a very interesting story themselves.
SANDRA
Ashe, you said:
“I also think it’s great to have a female character want a male character more for his mental capacity rather than looks or wealth.
You’re right, they could have made a very interesting story themselves.”
Love the fact that you share my opinion!!!
Two questions more:
I) Who are your favourite fairytale characters, one male and one female? Mine are the prince and the princess in the Fourth Story, obviously, but yours?
II) Have you read my spin-off play, the one I linked to in the first comment?

ASHE
Honestly, I’ve never thought about who was my favorite. There are those I tend to lean towards. I like the fairy tales about women who go and rescue their men, The Polar Bear King, The Iron Stove, Whitebear Wittington, etc..
For the male characters, I always prefer the ones with a little more meat to them. Generally, the most appealing male fairy tale characters are the men who no one thinks can succeed and finally they do.
I have not read your play yet. I will comment about it, once I have. Thanks for sending me the link.

TSQ-IV: ANALYSIS BY ASHE

20th of May 2015, by Ashe

The Snow Queen-Fourth Story-The Prince and the Princess



The nearby Princess decided that it was time for her to be wed. She wanted to marry a man who could actually talk to her and not lose his words when he came into her presence. There had been many men, but only one had not lost his words. All the other men forgot everything they were going to say and would only repeat the last two words the princess said.
...into the castle to have a look at the prince who would not be confounded with words.
a crow that lived in the palace. The girl crow also knew where a key was kept.
That night, to the castle.
...have to go upstairs to the room where the prince and princess slept. As they crept up the stairs shadows of men and horses sped past them upon the walls. These were dreams flying to their dreamers. They appeared as shadows upon the wall.
They finally made it to the room where the prince and princess slept, but the prince... He awoke and so too did the princess. In the morning, they straightened things out. The prince and princess were very kind.
the prince and princess. They had gone traveling.

Observations
...into a castle.

Themes

The princess wanted a man who would not be intimidated by her. This story was published in the 1800s. It’s not as if this story was from the 1500s or the 1600s. Women had more of a right in the world in the 1800s than they did way back when, but powerful women have always been admired. While powerful women have always been admired, they have not been admired as frequently as powerful men, and they were still looked down upon to a degree. Speaking of the same women, they can also intimidate men. Men can be a little scared of a woman who is smarter, more powerful, older, richer, or any other number of “ers” and “mores.”
Men have this idea in their heads, not all men, but usually men have an idea in their heads of how their lives are supposed to work. They have been told they’re the ones who are expected to be the provider, breadwinner, the protector, and many other labels. When they encounter a woman who challenges their idea of what they’re supposed to be, things can get a little odd. Maybe a man is struck dumb at the sight of a woman who is more powerful and has more money than he does. How many men have had the chance to meet their celebrity crushes, only to act completely stupid when they get the chance? Women do that too, by the way.
All these men that had come to see the princess were intimidated. They took one look at her and lost their places in the world. If the princess already had her own money and her own kingdom and her own army, what good were they? The prince who did come along, obviously wasn’t bothered by any of these things. He either was comfortable with the fact that maybe the princess had more or he was comfortable with being able to offer the Princess other things and considered his other offerings just as valuable to her. Because he had this attitude, he wasn’t intimidated by this princess.
This prince teaches us a valuable lesson. Maybe you don’t have all these awesome things about you. Maybe you’re not rich. Maybe you don’t have an army. Maybe you’re not skinny, or tall, or white, or you don’t have a nice booty, whatever the case may be that you feel you lack in, you have to consider that you may not actually be lacking. You have to have the attitude that what you do have to offer, and even your perceived faults, are things that are going to be valuable to people. You have to believe that you’re good enough, even if you can’t afford caviar.

Overall

The thought of shadow dreams running all around the house when we’re asleep is kind of weird.

Weigh In

Do you think the prince and princess ended up being happy together?

THREE NIGHTS TALES - ASHE

Ashe's analyses on the Grimms' four three nights tales (motif D1978.4: False bride drugs bridegroom, heroine awakens him by purchasing nights from false bride):


The Singing, Soaring/Springing Skylark (Das singende, springende Löweneckerchen), 
type 425A, 
8th of October 2013:

Her husband was fighting a dragon, which was really an enchanted princess.
The south wind told the girl to strike the dragon with the reed, as a result her husband would be able to subdue it. After this, both dragon and lion would turn back into humans. 
The girl traveled and found everything to be as the south wind had said. She plucked the eleventh reed and hit the dragon with it. The enchanted princess made a fast move though, she grabbed the prince and hopped on the griffin instead of allowing his true wife to do so. The girl was devastated, but avowed that she would go, “As far as the wind blows and as long as the cockerel crows,” until she found her husband.
She came to a castle where both the princess and her husband were living. The princess was planning on marrying the girl’s husband. There was a wedding feast to celebrate the impending marriage and the girl remembered her gifts. She opened the casket that the sun had given her. Inside was the most splendid dress. She put it on and it made the princess jealous. The princess desired to have the dress and asked if it were for sale. The girl said, “Not for money or land, but for flesh and blood.” The princess asked the price and the girl told her the price was one night with the prince. The princess agreed, because she was devious. When the time for payment came, the princess gave the prince a sleeping draught.
The girl was expecting to speak with her husband that night, but he was in a deep sleep. She was sorely disappointed. The next morning she was led out of the room with nothing to show for it. The girl went to a meadow to be sorry for herself, but remembered the present from the moon. She broke the egg open and inside was a hen and twelve chickens all of gold. The princess happened to see the girls’ golden chickens and she wanted them. She asked their price. The girl gave the same answer. The girl asked the same price.
The prince had deduced that something fishy had gone on the night before and asked the servant. The servant confessed that the princess had given him a sleeping draught. The prince told him that this time he should pour the draught out. The servant did as bidden. This time the prince was awake when his wife entered the room. The prince declared that this was his true wife and they were going to leave.
They hopped on the griffin, flew on, and made their way home.
THEMES:

There is a ton of symbolism in this story. The sun, the moon, the north wind, the south wind, the east wind, the west wind, a reed, a dragon, a beautiful dress, an egg, a sleeping potion, a chicken, the number twelve, the number seven, the number three, the number four, and so on, and so on, and so on. I could probably spend a year writing about all the symbolism in this story. This is not a study that goes that in-depth into the world of the Grimm’s stories, this is just a survey more or less. So, unfortunately, I cannot discuss all of these points here.


He could have been severely depressed for seven years or going through a drug addiction.
Who is still with him this entire time? Who searches over the entire known universe for him? His wife. When another woman tries to steal him away, she’s still there. She reminds him of their commitments. She reminds him of their life together. She reminds him of the good things. He finally comes home. Their relationship finally levels out. 

This story, is a story of a marriage. This story is of one very determined woman. She is determined to keep her husband and be by him no matter what. It’s really an illustration of wedding vows, in sickness and in health, so on and so on.

OVERALL

As much as I hate to admit it, this is really a love story. It’s a story of a marriage and it’s a story of some extreme devotion. It has a lot of symbolism, which I love.




The Two Royal Children (Die beiden Königskinder), 
type 313, 
6th of December 2013:

Get ready for a long summary and many familiar elements.

After a while, it was arranged that the prince was to be married. The princess begged to go. She opened one of the walnuts, inside was a very beautiful dress. She went and stood by the altar. The bride-to-be saw this beautiful dress and desired it. She asked the princess how much it was selling for. The princess said it was not for sale, but that maybe it could be earned. The bride asked her to name her price. She asked to sleep outside the door of the prince for one night. The bride agreed, but commanded that the prince should be given a sleeping draught.
That night the princess poured her soul out to the prince behind the closed door. She told him how she had rescued him three times with her earth men and had turned him into three different objects, but he didn’t hear any of it because he was asleep, but a servant did.
The next day the princess opened up another walnut; it contained an even more beautiful dress. She went and stood by the altar again. The bride came in the dress from the day before, but desired the more beautiful dress. The bride asked the princess to name her price and she asked the same price. Once again, the princess bemoaned what she had done outside the prince’s door, but this night was different. The servant had given the prince a sleeping draught, but had also given him something in order to stay awake. The prince heard everything and remembered all. He wanted to go to the princess, but his mother had locked the door, so he could not.
The next morning, the prince went to the princess and told her everything. He asked her forgiveness. The princess opened the last walnut and inside was the most beautiful dress of them all. They dressed up, went to the church, and got married. The false bride had to depart.
“And the mouth of the person who last told all this is still warm.”
The End

OBSERVATIONS

This is a very long Grimm’s story. I tried to summarize it as shortly as possible, but unfortunately, that’s still quite long.

By the way, St. Christopher is labeled as “the Christ bearer,” as in physically carrying Christ. This pretty much symbolizes taking someone else’s burden as your own, which happens in this story. The false bride’s greed relieves the prince of getting married to her.
I have a hunch, that some of these stories that sound very similar, but aren’t exactly the same story, come from different regions. Maybe there was a little village where the story was told one way and there was another village where the story was told a different way. Over the years, the stories developed their own quirks as people traveled and created traditions belonging to that village.



The Iron Stove (Der Eisenofen), 
type 425A, 
30th of December 2013:

This story has many other similar elements of many other Grimm’s stories, but it still beloved by many people. There are some absolutely beautiful illustrations out there depicting this story. 
A box was brought. The princess was fed and put in a beautiful and soft bed. In the morning the old frog gave her three presents. Three needles, a plough wheel, and three nuts. She would need these to go on her journey. The princess started out. She came to a glass mountain. She used the three needles to put behind her feet, then in front of her feet, and slowly made her way up the mountain. After that she came to three piercing swords. She put herself on the plough wheel and rolled over the swords. She soon came to a great lake and crossed it.
She found a beautiful castle. She asked to be a servant there, knowing her prince was there as well. As it turns out, he was about to marry another woman because he had thought the princess long dead. The princess cracked open one of her nuts and inside she found a beautiful dress. The fake-bride saw the dress and desired it greatly. She asked how much it would cost and the princess said the price was one night in the prince’s chamber. The fake-bride agreed, but gave the prince a sleeping draught before the night commenced. The princess could not wake him at all, but poured out her heart to him and all the things she had done for him.
The next day, she opened another nut. Inside was another beautiful dress. Again, the fake-bride desired it. The price was the same and all went the same except some servants had been listening. The next day the process was repeated with the final nut, but this time someone warned the prince and he did not take the sleeping draught. When he heard the things the princess had said, he knew she was his true love and they absconded in the night on a ship. They carefully made their way back home over the three swords and down the glass mountain. When they came back to the little house with the frogs, it was a great castle and the amphibians within were people now.
They got married.
A mouse did run
The story is done.
The End

OBSERVATIONS

This is very much like several other Grimm’s stories in which the woman fails somehow then has to go rescue her man, who has already found himself another woman. Essentially that’s the essence of all of these similar tales. They are kind of sweet as a romance story, but they’re also kind of off-putting if you really want to think about it.

THEMES

Here’s the formula for this type of story:
  1. Woman finds man in a strange circumstance (polar bear, lion, in a stove, etc..)
  2. Woman promises to do something for said man
  3. Woman breaks promise to said man
  4. Said man goes very far away, where he finds another woman
  5. Woman uses extraordinary measures to to find her husband and travels very far distances
  6. Woman tricks other woman into spending the night in the man’s room
  7. Man gets a sleeping draught
  8. Man finally catches on and goes away with his first woman
  9. The end
Yep, that’s how it works every single time. It’s a very familiar pattern. On the one hand, I like these strong, determined women and feel bad that their man has found himself another woman, but on the other hand, I kind of feel they deserved it for not keeping their promise. It seems like both parties are a little at fault here.
So it’s a common story backbone. I think it does say something about relationships. These women in these stories are pretty awesome, but they always breaks their promises. Not that breaking a promise is a death sentence. It does happen and sometimes it happens out of your control, so someone should usually be forgiving when one promise has been broken, now, ten or twelve broken promises on the other hand, might not be so forgivable. I have no evidence that this princess broke her promise in any other way, besides her father trying to play the old switch-her-roo. The “her” was totally intended. I think the prince should have been a little more forgiving. Why does he thinks she’s dead? It was nine days in the forest, maybe she’s freaking related to Bear Grylls. She survived in those woods just fine. The prince just goes off and finds himself another woman. This other woman always tends to be evil, vain or both. That’s supposed to be better than this other woman who loved you? The woman only wins her husband back because she’s got swag and bling. It’s like there is some show called “Pimp my  Dress” and she was on it, now all the other women are jealous of her dress with blue lights underneath.
Look relationships can be rocky. Both parties can be really at fault in a disagreement. There are those times when one person is right, but the other is wrong. There are times it’s the other way around. There are times when nobody is right and there are times when nobody is wrong. You have to learn to get over those disagreements, not that I’m an expert. The princess tries so hard. She gives so much. She works her butt off. She puts her heart, her mind, and her body into getting her man back, but here he is sitting in luxury with another woman already. Does he deserve her? I don’t really think he does, but she loves him, so she crosses the world to be with him.
I think it was amazing that this princess accomplished all of this. You go girl! But, seriously, I don’t think the man deserved it. He didn’t deserve her. What did he do for her? Name something. Buy her flowers? Nope. Rescue her from certain death? Nope. She was two hours away from home, if you remember. She would have found home eventually. Give her chocolates? Nope. Let her visit her family often? Nope. Buy her nice things? Nope. She got her nice things from some frogs.

OVERALL

With all this said, I do still like this story formula. I love all the things the women in these stories accomplish. These are probably some of the more women positive stories in the Grimm’s tales, not that any of them are overly woman positive.




The Drummer 
(Der Trommler), 
type 313, 
20th of June 2014:

This story is really long, but it’s about a drummer. Sadly, I don’t really know any names of drummers. I’m more of a guitar and piano fan myself.

The maiden then said that the drummer could marry her. They wouldn’t need any money because there was plenty inside of the house. They gathered up some riches and the drummer was going to take her back home on the saddle, but she said, “No thanks, I have my magical ring.” She wished them back home, but outside of his parents house she told him not to kiss his parents on the right cheek, otherwise he would forget her. She said she would wait for him.
He went home, but the time he had been away had really been three years and not just three days. His parents were relieved that he was alive. He kissed them, but he kissed them on the right cheek. He emptied his pockets and showed them all the riches he had. They built a big castle. In the meantime, the princess was still waiting. The drummer’s parents arranged a marriage for him.
The maiden had been waiting this whole time. She knew that he must have kissed his parents on the right cheek. She then heard around town that the drummer was to be married. She thought that she could win him back.
On the first day of the wedding ceremonies she used her magic ring to wish for a dress as bright as the sun. She wore it to the festivities and the bride-to-be saw it and wanted it. The princess said the bride could have it, but she must exchange a night by the door of the room in which her husband-to-be slept. The bride made the deal, but gave the drummer a sleeping potion before he went to sleep. The princess sat outside the door and lamented:
“Drummer, drummer, I pray you hear!
Have you forgotten you held me dear?
That on the glass mountain we sat hour by hour?
Did you not plight your troth to me?
Drummer, drummer, hearken to me!”
But he didn’t hear because he was in a deep sleep.
On the second day of the wedding festivities, the princess wished herself a dress as silvery as the moon. The bride to be saw the dress and had to have it, so she once again made a bargain with the princess. The same thing happened all over again. Sleeping potion, lamentations, and no progress.
On the third day, the princess wished for a dress that glittered like the stars. The bride had to have the dress and made the familiar trade with the princess. As it turned out people had heard the woman bemoaning her fate outside of the drummer’s door the past couple of nights and began to talk. The drummer happened to hear some of this talk and poured his sleeping draught behind the bed. That night, the princess gave her same lamentations, but the drummer heard them.
He remembered her and scolded himself for being unfaithful. He wondered over how a kiss of joy in greeting his parents could have led to such unhappiness. He led the princess by the hand to his parents’ bedroom and told them that this was his real wife and that he couldn’t marry anyone else. Once they had heard the story, they said it was ok. They switched out brides at the wedding and the former bride was content with her new dresses.
The End

THEMES

This story has many similar elements from other Grimm’s stories. We have a woman who laments by her love’s door for three nights. We have three dresses in the three degrees of glory. We have a woman who is so vain that she would trade a night with her boyfriend to a random woman for a dress.
I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t like fashion that much. I’m not going to trade my husband for a nice dress, but I might consider it one day if he gets too annoying. Women don’t go around letting other women borrow their men. Oh you can have him on alternate Thursdays. Nobody does that.
Obviously if you’re willing to trade your man for a dress, you don’t care for your man very much. This all points to the idea of “true love” circulating around in these tales. The other woman would never trade the man for a dress, but the fake bride totally would. The true love would stay outside her love’s door for three nights detailing all the things they had been through. The new love would let the old love have three nights with her man. Part of what these stories is trying to say is that the false love is willing to let go of the man while the true love isn’t willing to let go no matter what.
Sure, you may call this true love, but some people would call this stalking. This princess is like the ex that never goes away. The man is about to get married for crying out loud, they’re celebrating the wedding festivities, but she shows up and steals the man back. Hasn’t she ever heard the phrase, “If you love something let it go”? Sometimes, if you really, really care for a person you have to be willing to let them go. Sometimes, you look at them and see they would be happier in another situation or with somebody else. It just comes to a point when it’s selfish on your part to continue that relationship. I think the adult thing for this woman to have done would have been to go away and find herself another man. It sounds kind of harsh, but this man had already built a new life. His had a castle. He was a respected man in the community. He provided for his parents. He had found a new wife and I can guarantee you that he knew her longer than three days before marrying her.
Say you do love someone…wouldn’t you want them to happy even if that meant not being with you? If you did have them and you could see it made them very unhappy would you feel ok with that? Sure, you satisfied your selfish need to have them around, but they’re over there languishing in depression because they’re not with the person they want to be with.

OVERALL

This could be on an episode of Maury.



General remarks, 31st of July 2014

In most epic stories, the man rescues the woman, but that isn’t always the case, even with the Grimm’s stories. There are actually more stories than you would think where a woman rescues a man in the Grimms' collection. A woman being the rescuer isn’t as common as the man being the rescuer, but it happens. The main difference between the rescue scenarios, besides frequency, is the relationship status between the rescuer and the rescuee.
The men go around rescuing potential wives, as in not a wife yet, merely a girlfriend and in most cases a woman they had just met recently. The women rescue their husbands, with one exception that I remember where the woman rescues her fiancé. What does that say about these stories? What does that say about society?

Now, the women–some of them do some rescuing. They don’t fight dragons or anything like that, but they do go on very long journeys, wear disguises, and trick enchantresses. They may not kill dragons, but they’re still pretty awesome. These men they’re rescuing are not boyfriends. These men are their husbands. They’ve known them for years. They have kids together. This is not some guy they just met. This man means a lot to these women. They have memories together. They have a life together. These women are literally trying to save their world.
Why not save a boyfriend? Honestly, is your boyfriend worth it? As a woman, I know I’ve had some alright boyfriends and some pretty great boyfriends, and then there are those guys you don’t even want to dignify with the title boyfriend. We generally have a few specimens to compare our men to.
Now think about what these women did. They traveled hundreds of miles, maybe thousands. They often watched their men with another woman. They fought as hard as they could to get their man back. Is a mere boyfriend worth all of that trouble? Maybe I haven’t had very good boyfriends, but I don’t think there is really one of them that I would travel thousands of miles for on foot, maybe on a plane, but not on foot. For a man who isn’t even committed to you, that would be a lot of struggle on your part.
A husband on the other hand, is committed to you, at least on paper. It would make sense to sacrifice for the father of your children. It would make sense to fight that hard for your relationship.
The whole thing is also a societal expectation. Women were expected to drop everything and have their life revolve around their husband. 
Women historically have given up a lot for men. When I say these women were fighting for their entire life, they were really fighting for their entire life. Everything they were was dependent upon their husband. If it were you, you would fight just as hard because it’s not only this man who you may care about, but maybe not, but it’s your everything. Unfortunately, these women had to have this particular man to continue the life they knew. You better believe they fought.
This whole thing was also a double-standard. It was ok for a man to be chivalrous, if you want to call it that, but it wasn’t ok for any woman to pay any man much attention unless she was married to that man. If a woman sacrificed anywhere remotely near what these women were sacrificing  for their husbands, there would be some awful rumors floating around. Maybe she just really liked the guy, but society would start saying things like, “Well, maybe she’s just really pregnant with the guy’s baby, out of wedlock.”

lunes, 18 de agosto de 2014

MORE ANALYSES OF TSQ-IV

Said princess decided she fancied a husband one day and extended the invitation to any eligible bachelors around. Any who could speak well and comfortably to her would be her husband, and the one who succeeded, a rugged chap with long hair...
...prince and princess waving a tearful goodbye.


Fjerde del af historien handler om Gerdas møde med en prins og en prinsesse. Delen er placeret midt i den samlede historie og begynder derfor "in medias res", hvor vi fra en trejdepersonsfortæller hører om Gerdas møde med en talende krage.
Fremstillingsformen er scenisk og tempoet stille og roligt. 
Kragen præsenterer sig selv og sin kæreste og fortæller, om hvordan landets prinsesse for nyligt er blevet gift med en fattig dreng. Gerda identificerer straks drengen som Kay og beslutter sig for at tage op til prinsessens slot. Da Gerda kommer ind i slottet ser hun et væld af kunstige blomster, der strækker sig ud over slottets vægge. Intet i slottet er altså ægte, alting er en kunstig skildring af naturen. Slottet er altså en komplet modsætning til blomsterhaven, som Gerda besøgte i tredje del.
I prinsessens sovekammer forestiller loftet en palme, der er lavet af glas. En ægte palme
symboliserer, ifølge den kristne tro, triumf og sejr, men da denne palme er kunstig, får Gerda kun
en "falsk" sejr ud af hendes besøg på slottet. Det er nemlig ikke den rigtige Kay hun finder, men
blot en dreng, der ligner ham. Derudover hjælper prinsen og prinsessen Gerda videre på sin vej
ved at klæde hende på i det fineste silke og give hende en fuldt bemandet karet af sølv og guld.
Denne hjælp kommer dog ikke Gerda til gode, da hun løber ind i en røverbande, der sandsynligvis
ikke havde haft nogen særlig interesse i hende, hvis hun ikke havde været klædt i silke og kørt i en karet af guld og sølv. Hjælpen er altså ligeså kunstig, som udsmykningen i slottet.

 ”Sneedronningens” fjerde og femte historie er det primære tema en klassisk romantisk diskussion om forskellene imellem den stive civilisation og så den uspolerede natur, hvor prinsen og prinsessens slot og røverpigens skov optræder som repræsentanter for hver deres karikerede udgave af modsætningerne.

  Efter sin flugt møder Gerda en krage, som sammen med sin forlovede fører hende til et slot, hvor hun fejlagtigt tror, at Kay opholder sig. Den nykronede prins på slottet synes nemlig også at være mere præget af fornuft end af følelser (”han var slet ikke kommen for at frie, bare alene kommen for at høre Prindsessens Klogskab” (s. 64)), og hun forveksler ham derfor med Kay, der jo også forsøgte at gøre indtryk på Snedronningen ved at fortælle hende, at han ”kunde Hoved-Regning, og det med Brøk” (s. 54-55).

  Men på slottets gange får Gerda det første fingerpeg om, hvad det egentlig er for et besynderligt sted, hun er kommet til, idet hun her møder de drømme og naturlige længsler og behov, som de kongelige har, men ikke får udlevet: ”Heste med flagrende Manker og tynde Been, Jægerdrenge, Herrer og Damer til Hest” (s. 65).

  Ægte natur er der da heller ikke meget af på slottet. Sovekamret er spækket med blomster, men i modsætning til hos den gamle troldkvinde, er de alle kunstige: ”Loftet herinde lignede en stor Palme med Blade af Glas, kostbart Glas, og midt paa Gulvet hang i en tyk Stilk af Guld to Senge, der hver saae ud som Lilier” (s. 66). Som i ”Nattergalen” er der tale om en kopi, en imitation, af den ægte natur. Ganske vist i ædle metaller, men ikke tilnærmelsesvis på højde med forbilledet.

  Det virker derfor også helt naturligt, at prinsen og prinsessen straks iværksætter de nødvendige foranstaltninger, så lignende episoder med – ellers ret romantiske – indbrud og natteroderier ikke gentager sig: De dresserer de vilde væsener, som har ført Gerda på afveje, og de gør det ved, som Ib Johansen udtrykker det i sin artikel En vinterrejse (2000), at belønne dem ”på ægte biedermeiervis”21: ”Ville I flyve frit?” spurgte Prindsessen, ”eller ville I have fast Ansættelse som Hofkrager med Alt, hvad der falder af i Kjøkkenet?” (II, s. 66).

  Og det går som planlagt. Kragerne kan ikke modstå det favorable tilbud og bliver så stopfodrede af deres køkkenjob, at de helt mister deres vitalitet.

  På samme måde skorter det heller ikke på forsøg på at tæmme Gerda: Hun bliver ”klædt op fra Top til Taa i Silke og Fløiel”, og får ”baade Støvler og Muffe; hun blev så nydeligt klædt paa, og da hun vilde af sted, holdt ved Døren en nye Karreet af puurt Guld”, ligesom at hendes vogn bliver ”foret med Sukkerkringler, og i Sædet vare Frugter og Pebernødder” (s. 66-67), så også hun kan forspise sig.              

  Men den livsførelse, som råder på slottet, er på trods af den nydelige overflade ikke brugbar for et (romantisk) søgende menneske som Gerda, idet den på smertefuld vis adskiller hende fra kragen, og dermed fra naturen i hende selv: ”lille Gerda græd, og Kragen græd; - saaledes gik de første Mile; da sagde ogsaa Kragen Farvel, og det var den tungeste Afsked” (s. 67).

  Modstykket, til det depraverede ønske om via mad og kostbarheder at passivisere individet, synes derfor at være den romantiske drøm om det ’ægte’ uciviliserede samfund, hvor snærende love og moralbegreber endnu ikke har vundet frem. 

  
  Men tilsvarende får man også oplysninger om, at prinsen og prinsessen ”ere reiste til fremmede Lande” (s. 76), og desuden har undertrykt de naturlige elementer så effektivt, at de er forsvundet eller simpelthen blevet ubrugelige.

  De har alle tre følt sig nødsaget til at foretage en (dannelses)rejse væk fra deres utilstrækkelige ophav, og Andersen tager dermed ikke umiddelbart parti for nogen af siderne. Forklaringen herpå skal, som med mange af historiens andre konflikter, nok findes i, at hverken konge- eller røverslottets beboere har haft en åndelig dimension at falde tilbage på.

  Prinsen og prinsessen, som ensidigt dyrkede fornuften og for hvem kærligheden var noget ganske tilfældigt (”da kommer hun til at nynne en Vise, det var netop den: ’Hvorfor skulde jeg ikke gifte mig!’ ”Hør, det er der Noget i”, siger hun, og saa vilde hun gifte sig” (s. 62)) er på det nærmeste sekulariserede. Det tætteste, de kommer på en tilknytning til det guddommelige, er, at de har en sal af ”rosenrødt Atlask med konstige Blomster op ad Væggen” (s. 65), og så at de forærer Gerda en karet af guld, som stråler ”som det klare Solskin” (s. 67). Den binding til (barne)troen, som måske kunne give det golde liv på slottet en smule mening, er ingen steder at finde.  

 Historien om Prinsen og Prinsessen er et helt eventyr for sig selv. Hvad er temaet?



Khac Ti Ang Thuyet, June 2014
Thesis on Andersen female characters (Excerpt)

...has supposedly married a clever and beautiful princess...
She (Gerta) is helped by the prince and princess, who give her a carriage and horse and a little pair of boots so that she might drive out again into the wide world...
the princess gives Gerda a pair of boots and a muff, a carriage and a horse, together with a coachman, footman and outrider, facilitating her journey;
...a clever princess who gave her (Gerta) a golden carriage and a horse.

These stories provide

all we need in the way of awesome images of very strong female characters, whether

good or evil: in the Fourth Story, the clever princess. They are very free in their

world. They are determined and strong-willed. They are able to make choices and

decide their own destinies. They can do what they like to make their own dreams

come true.


The princess is a supplementary character who only appears in one chapter of the

Snow Queen story, yet she is an admirable and inspirational female character. She is

clever and intellectual.

 In this kingdom where we are now, there lives a Princess who is 

very clever. She has read all the newspapers in the world and forgotten them 

again, so clever is she. One day she was sitting on her throne, which is not such 

an amusing thing to do either, they say. And she began humming a tune, which 

happened to be: “Why should I not be married?”[...]. And she made up her mind 

to marry, if she could find a husband who had an answer ready when a question 

was put to him, not one who could only stand there and look grand, for that is too 

stupid. 

 (Andersen, 1997, 226)

This is a refreshingly different way to introduce a character, and we find nothing so

witty, ironic, sophisticated in Grimms’ fairy tales' (18)

emphasis on a fairy-tale princess’ beauty rather than, as here, her intelligence and wit

– though in fact we do not know what this princess looks like. She decides on her own

that she wants to get married, and she then goes on to consider what kind of husband

she is looking for – one who is intelligent, “unabashed of royalty,” and who “feels at

home with her” (Andersen, 1997, 126). The man actually chosen by the princess is not

a prince but a wanderer, one with creaking boots and a knapsack on his back.

However, he is “a picture of good looks and gallantry, and then he had not come with

any idea of wooing the Princess, but simply to hear her wisdom, he admired her just

as much as she admired him” (Andersen, 1997, 129). He does not slay any dragon, but

he can match the princess’s intellect with his own rather than impressing her with

victories. Just as our looks may fade; our wealth and status might also be diminished:

only our intellect and wisdom can last. The princess is not only clever; she is generous

and sympathetic as well. She is willing to help Gerda with her new golden carriage.

At the end of the tale, the princess and her husband go away “to live in foreign

countries”. They are free, totally not bound by the traditional social roles.


(18) This would be true even if we only heard the author, or the Raven, or the princess speaking there, but in fact we hear all three in this complex passage that combines three narrative-discursive levels. 

Just like the princess, the robber girl is a very inspirational and admirable

female character. Her reward is her “complete freedom”.


ROSANA DA SILVA SANTOS, 2014

A história de uma princesa que queria casar-se e para conseguir tal feito os candidatos a noivo deveriam falar bem e agradar-lhe. A princesa gostou de um rapaz.
... agora com bons trajes, botas e uma carruagem que lhe foram presenteados pelo príncipe e pela princesa.

Na quarta história, sobre um príncipe e uma princesa, o ambiente é outro e o tempo passou. Já é inverno. No conto “A rainha da neve”, o espaço físico se altera à medida que a ação se desenvolve. O espaço, além de marcar, geograficamente, o local onde ocorre a ação, vincula-se ao espaço psicológico das protagonistas.
A história de uma princesa que queria casar-se com alguém que, além de boa aparência, soubesse responder quando ela lhe falasse, pois considerava-se muito inteligente.
O noivo escolhido para desposá-la.
No terceiro dia de apresentação dos pretendentes, surgiu um rapaz com a seguinte descrição: “[...] um sujeito miúdo, sem cavalo, nem carro, marchando, audacioso e confiante, até o palácio. Os olhos dele brilhavam. Tinha lindos cabelos compridos, mas vinha pobremente trajado” (HANSSEN, 1981, p. 281). Além disso, trazia às costas uma grande mochila e suas botinas rangiam.
Outro aspecto mencionado relacionava-se à inteligência do candidato.
No caminho para os aposentos reais, passam os sonhos dos nobres. O sonho é outro elemento importante na narrativa.
 Nos aposentos, Gerda encontra o príncipe e a princesa, cada qual em suas camas,
e conta-lhes sua história. O príncipe dá sua cama para a menina descansar. Ela tem seu segundo monólogo interior: “Como são bons os homens e animais!” (HANSSEN, 1981, p. 284).
No dia seguinte, o príncipe e a princesa presenteiam-na com vestido, sapatos e uma bela carruagem com cocheiros e criados.
dando início à quinta história. Esta história, quinta, é sobre a filhinha dos salteadores e inicia-se descrevendo uma estrada escura onde a carruagem brilha como ouro e chama a atenção de salteadores que
matam o cocheiro, os criados...
De trenó, eles partem para a floresta e encontram a filha dos salteadores, que lhes conta que o príncipe e a princesa viajaram para o estrangeiro.
 As personagens secundárias não saem de seu núcleo temático.


Morgens Paahus
Excerpt from H.C. Andersens livsfilosofi (The Life Philosophy of H.C. Andersen)
translated directly from the Danish by the mistress of this blog

A reality phase, where one learns independence and self-confidence and also learns to escape from the different decadence possibilities of this phase: one of which is calculating reason.

[...] - this is the second stage - to be independent and true to oneself. These skills are the ones described in the account of the little lively chap with "fine thick flowing hair, but whose clothes are shabby," who wins the princess, even though he, unlike all the others, has not come to woo the princess, but "only to hear her wise conversation," which he, thus, "liked very well." In this story, it is stressed that this skill to be oneself is something that is far from selfishness and calculations. All other suitors, except the little lively chap, are after all selfish and calculating, besides that they lose their speech (id est, lose their selves) when confused by all of the elegance that surrounds the princess.


Ashe, 20th of May 2015

The Snow Queen-Fourth Story-The Prince and the Princess

The nearby Princess decided that it was time for her to be wed. She wanted to marry a man who could actually talk to her and not lose his words when he came into her presence. There had been many men, but only one had not lost his words. All the other men forgot everything they were going to say and would only repeat the last two words the princess said.
 into the castle to have a look at the prince who would not be confounded with words. 
They would have to go upstairs to the room where the prince and princess slept. As they crept up the stairs shadows of men and horses sped past them upon the walls. These were dreams flying to their dreamers. They appeared as shadows upon the wall.
 the room where the prince and princess slept, but the prince
He awoke and so too did the princess. In the morning, they straightened things out. 
The prince and princess were very kind.
the prince and princess. They had gone traveling.

Themes

The princess wanted a man who would not be intimidated by her. This story was published in the 1800s. It’s not as if this story was from the 1500s or the 1600s. Women had more of a right in the world in the 1800s than they did way back when, but powerful women have always been admired. While powerful women have always been admired, they have not been admired as frequently as powerful men, and they were still looked down upon to a degree. Speaking of the same women, they can also intimidate men. Men can be a little scared of a woman who is smarter, more powerful, older, richer, or any other number of “ers” and “mores.”
Men have this idea in their heads, not all men, but usually men have an idea in their heads of how their lives are supposed to work. They have been told they’re the ones who are expected to be the provider, breadwinner, the protector, and many other labels. When they encounter a woman who challenges their idea of what they’re supposed to be, things can get a little odd. Maybe a man is struck dumb at the sight of a woman who is more powerful and has more money than he does. How many men have had the chance to meet their celebrity crushes, only to act completely stupid when they get the chance? Women do that too, by the way.
All these men that had come to see the princess were intimidated. They took one look at her and lost their places in the world. If the princess already had her own money and her own kingdom and her own army, what good were they? The prince who did come along, obviously wasn’t bothered by any of these things. He either was comfortable with the fact that maybe the princess had more or he was comfortable with being able to offer the Princess other things and considered his other offerings just as valuable to her. Because he had this attitude, he wasn’t intimidated by this princess.
This prince teaches us a valuable lesson. Maybe you don’t have all these awesome things about you. Maybe you’re not rich. Maybe you don’t have an army. Maybe you’re not skinny, or tall, or white, or you don’t have a nice booty, whatever the case may be that you feel you lack in, you have to consider that you may not actually be lacking. You have to have the attitude that what you do have to offer, and even your perceived faults, are things that are going to be valuable to people. You have to believe that you’re good enough, even if you can’t afford caviar.

Overall

The thought of shadow dreams running all around the house when we’re asleep is kind of weird.

Weigh In

Do you think the prince and princess ended up being happy together?